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Tuesday, December 23, 2014

OD&D - The Thief - a complete re-write (& new name) 001

Over on DF in this:

As a result of this conversation:


Hey ThePerilousDreamer,

I can see your point about thieves and how they may not fit in your campaign---

My opinion is that thieves are very versatile and have a bunch of useful skills that they can bring to a party.  Sure, some (if not most) of them can be considered shady--backstabbing comes to mind.  But I would argue that a thief could potentially be lawful good, rare, but they could.  If you generate a thief that has a deep fascination with opening locks or feeling fulfilled by finding and removing traps for a group, these activities don't necessarily  lead to chaos.  Even move silently and hide in shadows for someone who wanted to excel at being a scout for the party  (such as skills by the ranger).  I'm wondering if you changed the class name of thief to something more positive, removed backstabbing, changed pick pocket skill to sleight of hand, etc. if you would like the class more or could see it fitting in your campaign better?

I play 2nd edition so not as familiar with OD&D.

I replied:



I like some of the abilities that thieves have, but I don't like the name, one reason why I did a rewrite of the bard was to tone the original bard down to a more reasonable level and put (some of) the thief abilities back in the game.

However, I have not ruled out doing a complete re-write of thief class with a different name as a fighter sub-class and eliminating things like the back-stab and pickpocket abilities since those are the ones that are evil. Sleight of hand of hand, Hmm, OK you have convinced me I will do it.


Gee he twisted my arm soooooo much, I am going to do a complete re-write of the Thief and incorporate some of the ideas noted above.

So I will be posting my thief re-write here and attempting to come up with a new name. I will welcome your thoughts.

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Ok just to take this a little further,as a replacement for the thief class I am wanting a new name so below I am listing a bunch of names and I would like to pick one for the name of the class and then one for each of the first 8 or so levels: I am thinking of Indiana Jones and those like him, Marco Polo, Robin Hood, etc. So please tell me what you like for a class name and what you like for the Level names especially for name level.

explorer
scout
trailblazer
pioneer
adventurer
forerunner
guide
pathfinder
wanderer
excursionist
discoverer
prospector
venturer
gadabout
traveler
peregrinator
rover
opportunist
vanguard
outrider
spotter
discloser
revealer
discerner
identifier

Anyone that wants to comment on a Class Name and the order of the Level Names, please do so! :) 

Which eight names would you pick for the Level Names?  What would you pick for the Class name to replace Thief?

8 comments:

  1. I went around and around on this myself for some of the same reasons, but finally settling on (and returning to) "Thief". You don't have to be evil. Think Bilbo Baggins, who is explicitly described as one. But I think the potential new level titles are a good idea.

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  2. No, you don't have to be evil - in OD&D thieves are Neutral or Chaotic, but I want a name and class that can be and implies Lawful or Neutral and then the Thief is the Chaotic version like the EHP aka the anti-cleric is the opposite of the cleric. I know you have a good sense of things and I like your work a lot, any comments on the last sentence? :).

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  3. I see no reason to make a lawful thief. Rangers and paladins are already strictly lawful, so a neutral/chaotic thief subclass would add some nice balance.

    And as Oakes says, Bilbo pickpockets in the second chapter.

    "...and yet somehow he could not go straight back to Thorin and Company empty-handed. So he stood and hesitated in the shadows. Of the various burglarious proceedings he had heard of picking the trolls' pockets seemed the least difficult, so at last he crept behind a tree just behind William.
    Bert and Tom went off to the barrel. William was having another drink. Then Bilbo plucked up courage and put his little hand in William's enormous pocket. There was a purse in it, as big as a bag to Bilbo. 'Ha!' thought he warming to his new work as he lifted it carefully out, 'this is a beginning!' "

    Later he pickpockets the elf-gaurd's keys, and I believe he steals food when they arrive in lake town.

    As far as a name goes, scout, explorer, pathfinder, trailblazer, and the like are terribly evocative of the ranger. "Thief" works well as is, but if you are really intent on renaming it,I'd suggest "graverobber" or "tomb-raider".

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  4. Thank you for your suggestions, I am doing it because I typically run a Lawful campaign and always have with mostly Lawful and some Neutral characters. Thieves in OD&D were Neutral (which was a stretch for me even bitd) or Chaotic. I have always viewed the backstab as evil, so rather than just take the backstab away and still have a thief for whom the name in the real world has the meaning of criminal which does not fit with a mostly lawful party, I decided just to do a complete re-write and get rid of he percentages at the same time. Plus I have players who will play the rewritten thief. I am the only one that ever plays a paladin or ranger - no one else does, so it is not like I would have all three in the game at the same time. I won't at least not IMC.

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  5. I recall the term mild-fighter being used a lot in my early days playIng of D&D. Thieves were not to be trusted, short or tall. Mild-fighters wore leather and did fighter stuff. If they did any burglary, it wasn't noticed.

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  6. Hmm, I am not familiar with that term. What year did you start playing and what version?

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    Replies
    1. I began playing D&D thirty years ago. Mild-fighters were an in house joke. The only good thief being a dead one. Hobbits were also watched closely (and sometimes hung upside down and shaken). So, given this level of suspicion, thieves would introduce themselves as mild-fighters.

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